Firstly, please understand that Thick as Thieves is NOT a “make whatever you want internet tailor”. Thick as Thieves was based on a very specific aesthetic and while there is some room for variety within the aesthetic, not all personal requests will be accommodated. For example, the most common is a request for 3-piece suits with a vest. As I do not personally like 3 piece suits they are not an option. Another is for wide lapels, bootcut trousers, etc. that are not in line with the aesthetic, which is based on an early-mid 60s styling. If you want something that is not offered, please do not ask as there are no exceptions within my fascist regime. There are many internet tailors out there who will make anything you want. My working motto is “If I wouldn’t wear it myself it will not be made”. Thanks for your consideration and understanding in this matter.
How much do suits cost?
- Suits range in price depending on fabric choice. Most cloths are currently $530 shipped CONUS. Some cloth will incur a slightly higher charge if the fabric itself is more expensive. Any surcharges above the standard $530 are strictly due to fabric cost being higher. All quoted prices are shipped within the USA by USPS priority mail with delivery confirmation. If you need UPS/Fedex shipping there may be an additional charge. All orders outside of the USA please add $50 to the quoted price for USPS EMS (Expedited Mail Service) which is a 3-5 day transit for all countries outside of USA, and a tracking number will be provided.
How long does it take for delivery?
- Approximately 4 weeks before it is ready to ship to you, whereupon transit rates apply from therein. While the turnaround time is slated at 4 weeks, this is AN APPROXIMATION ONLY. Sometimes it will be less time, sometimes it will be a few days longer. Please do not email at exactly 30 days and say "It's been exactly 4 weeks, why hasn't my suit shipped". Shipping within USA is by USPS priority mail with delivery confirmation (1-3 day delivery depending on your location). There is no usable tracking # like UPS/Fedex to track each step, if your mail box is not safe for package deliveries then please ask me to ship UPS instead which will require a signature for delivery (slightly higher cost may incur). You can also upgrade shipping to Next Day air if needed, at an additional cost (usually $20). Please keep in mind that Next Day air is via USPS, therefore some (outlying, non-Metropolitan) cities might take 2 days for arrival even with Next Day air. International shipments are via USPS EMS delivery. EMS deliveries will have a trackable number attached to the shipment and most countries have a 3-5 day transit.
Do you do rush orders?
- We try to be as accommodating as possible so we will try our best to fulfill genuine rush requests. There is a $60 “Cut in front of line” surcharge for all rush orders. If your order does not ship out in the time we agree then the surcharge will be refunded, but if the suit ships as planned and there is an issue regarding fit, transit delay, etc the surcharge will not be refunded.
- We advise you have a "Plan B" in case the deadline is not meet-able or in case there is a major fit issue rendering it unwearable. While rush orders are usually do-able (a rush is anything that needs to be in your hands in less than 3 weeks from order date), we DO NOT RECOMMEND them because in addition to potential transit and fit issues, keep in mind the suit will need to be pressed, perhaps some minor tailoring needed, so if you do a rush request then know that WHAT COMES OUT OF THE BOX IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO WEAR. For any rush orders, the soonest a suit will be ready to ship is within 2 weeks (then the applicable transit time), so if you need it sooner than 2 weeks a rush order will not get you the garment in time. Rush orders are still shipped USPS Priority mail which is 2 days to most all locations. If you need overnight shipping that will be an extra shipping surcharge not included in the rush order surcharge.
If the suit in question is for a wedding, our policy is that it must be ordered at least 2 MONTHS prior to your date, to account for any unexpected delays or fit issues. If need be, you may be required to pay for a quicker delivery method at your cost. The 2 month leadtime is the minimum, ideally even slightly longer is advised. If your wedding is less than 2 months away, a suit can still be made, but THERE ARE BE NO GUARANTEES OF DELIVERY IN TIME NOR OF FIT ISSUES BEING ADDRESSED BEFORE THE WEDDING. Therefore, you MUST have a Plan B in back of your mind for any worst case scenarios regarding delivery or fit. If you are ordering multiple suits for an entire wedding party, the 2 month minimum is mandatory. Less than a full 2 month and such inquiries will be declined. I reserve the right to decline any rush wedding orders depending on current state of workload, as well as timeframe, and any other mitigating factors that make me feel it will not be do-able.
- There are NO RUSH ORDERS FOR INTERNATIONAL SHIPMENTS. Turnaround time is the usual 4 weeks approx. and then whatever transit rate to your country. Due to potential delays with transit and customs, all international orders are on a “you’ll get it when you get it” basis.
What sizes do you make?
- There is no minimum size, we have gone as small as a 30" measured chest. But our sizing stops up to a 42" measured chest. I have found that the pattern I developed looks the best up to a 42, so I do not offer larger sizes, and ultimately Thick as Thieves was conceived to accommodate guys who are smaller-average size but could only find larger ill-fitting sizes off the rack.
What is the house cut?
- Jacket construction:
Double 6” vents
Full canvas construction
Jacket length approx 2” longer than bottom of sleeve length
Functioning lapel buttonhole
2” lapel width (notch) or 2.5” lapel width (peak)
Sleeve buttons number (+1) from front button total
Overlapping house design ticket pocket
- Frogmouth front pockets
Single rear pocket on right side with button closure
10.5” rise for most average heights (5’8 – 5’10). Taller/shorter heights will have rise adjusted .5” +/- in relation to height.
Trouser hem is tapered ½” more than traditional cut. There is no arbitrary number, it depends on how your legs measure thru the thigh and calf.
What is the “traditional” cut?
- Lapels widened to 2.5 – 3” depending on jacket size.
- Jacket length approx 3-4” longer than sleeve level
- Trousers less tapered thru leg (but still tapered slightly)
- Ticket pocket made traditional (no overlap), or omitted altogether
- Trouser pockets side-slant (no frogmouth)
Is there a fit difference between the house cut and the traditional cut?
Simply put, NO. All suits are intended to fit slim, so the way suits are spec'd for house and traditional cut do not differ. The ONLY minor fit difference is that the house cut has more leg taper thru the trouser. Usually the difference is ½" between house and traditional taper. For example, on my own trousers made house cut style, the width across trouser hem is 7.5". If I were to wear the traditional cut trouser, the width across trouser hem would be 8". And that width is not arbitrary, as it depends on your leg measurements. The only real difference between house cut and traditional cut is the DETAILING, the traditional cut is made with more "normal" details to fit in a more conservative workplace or interviews. The house cut is made for social wear or more relaxed workplace enviros hence the detailing is slightly more aggressive/casual.
Options that can be applied to all suits:
- Angled pockets on jacket (Hacking pockets)
- Patch pockets (with or without flap) for side and/or breast pockets
- Topstitched lapels/pockets (swelled seams) which are standard for all patch pockets
- Single vent (double vent is default)
- “Sack” style construction (undarted), but this method of construction means less jacket waist tapering, so recommended for those with more columnar build (6” drop or less), not for those who have a large chest – waist difference.
- Side tab adjuster to replace belt loops, either buckle or 2-button style.
- Cuffs on trousers (we like 2” cuffs)
- Very small amount of shoulder padding as jackets are unpadded by default.
Do you do 3-piece suits (vests)?
No, suits are only 2-piece, no vests. Why? I do not like vests with suits and if I would not wear it, it will not be offered as a part of Thick as Thieves.
What else won’t you make?
Please do not email with photos or links asking if I can copy “____”. Thick as Thieves has its own aesthetic, if you are looking to copy something then I suggest getting the actual maker rather than trying to copy it. Or use one of many other “internet tailors” out there who will make anything you want. No, there are none I can recommend as I have not personally used any. If what you like in another maker is something you see in Thick as Thieves then obviously we’re on the same page.
What can I customize from the default design?
Thick as Thieves offers a very specific aesthetic and feel that the best results are those that don't deviate from it, however we are happy to slightly alter the design to accommodate more conservative clients.
- Notch lapel width can be widened up to 3”. We will not make notch lapels wider than 3” unless your jacket is the largest fit (42) in which case lapels can be widened to 3.5” to preserve balance. Peak lapels, due to their shape, can be made to 3.75” (4.25” for size 42) wide. Wider lapels than this are antithetical to the Thick as Thieves aesthetic.
- Jacket length can be lengthened or shortened. Contrary to popular belief, there is no standard jacket length. Length is determined by the wearer’s height and arm length and is intended to be shorter than normal, ending approx 2” below the wrist level. We will lengthen the jacket to be closer to normal by request. (Usually by adding 1-2” to the length). Button placement is done in relation to the jacket length so if we lengthen (shorten) the jacket, the buttoning points will be adjusted to reflect the change in cut. Some gentlemen have longer/shorter arms in relation to their torso, in which case a “what will look best” approach is taken, so some jackets will have a shorter/longer length than what would normally be done to accommodate such physiques.
- Trousers only have one rear pocket on wearer’s right side. We can add a 2nd upon request.
- Trousers have belt loops. We can put side tabs (either buckle or button) instead of loops. We generally do not add suspender buttons as our cut and button’d suspenders do not work well together, visually. Keep in mind for the side tab option, buckle side tabs are functional in actually tightening the waist as needed, the 2 button side tab is purely aesthetic, and while the side tabs do function, they cannot be used in a real life application to tighten the waist. That said, most opt for the button side tab option rather than buckle side tab.
- Ticket pocket on jackets can be removed so you only have the 2 main pockets at the side.
- 3 Button jackets can be made with a 3/roll2 lapel that is intended to button at middle only
- You can mix/match features from within house designs. ie: You can have a peak lapel one button jacket with horizontal pockets, or a 2 button notch lapel jacket with angled pockets, as 2 examples.
How do I get measured?
- Due to the wildly inaccurate measurements we receive from those who went to a professional tailor, we feel you can do a very accurate SELF MEASUREMENT yourself with a tape measure and a friend.
- Make sure all measurements are taken snug, not tight, and definitely not loose. The fewer articles of clothing you measure over, the better.
- We recommend taking multiple sets of measurements just to make sure you are getting the same results each time.
- While having your chest measured it is important to not be looking down, which is a natural reaction for most, to see what the tape is reading. Look straight ahead and stand naturally, do not overexaggerate your posture. Looking downward will result in a smaller than accurate measurement.
- If you do go to a tailor’s to get measured, we still recommend doing a set yourself and comparing the two. It’s amazing how different a tailor’s measure and your own self measure can result. And most of the time your measurement is actually the accurate one.
- Why are tailors’ measurements so often inaccurate? Many pad the measurement since they are probably used to a looser fit being “correct”. Sometimes they give you an interpreted measurement, meaning rather than the raw measure off the body, they give you the size that the garment should have. If you do go to a tailor, make sure he is giving you raw measurements off the body, done snugly.
What if my suit doesn’t fit?
- We can only make based on measurements given so we ask those submitting measurements to be sure of them as much as possible. Ideally, TAKING A FEW SETS OF MEASUREMENTS for those who are novices at this is the best thing to do. This way you can see if you are getting consistent measurements without much discrepancy.
- Providing more info on other brands (jeans, suits, shirts etc) you wear is always helpful in getting a full picture of your build and proportions.
- If you do not readily know your jacket sleeve length, we ask you to get nonfunctional sleeve cuffs that can be easily adjusted. Basically, if you have to ask how to measure sleeve length, then it’s better to get nonfunctional cuffs for your first suit. All finished suits are re-measured compared to the client’s original specs given to make sure they are as accurate as possible, before they are shipped.
- Even with a MTM process (and even full bespoke), many finished suits may require fine tuning that can be accomplished with your local tailor. There is rarely such thing as “the perfect fit”, especially as everyone has a different image in mind when they think of this “perfect fit”.
- I always recommend gentlemen to have their trouser inseam adjusted after receipt of suit. Most provide an inseam length that IMO will be too long. Depending on the shoes you wear, where the trouser waist sits on your hips, etc will all determine the correct inseam so it is possible to have different sets of trousers that look like they have the same inseam, but in reality can all be slightly different from each other. But it is the easiest/cheapest alteration to have done, and makes a big difference to how the suit silhouette looks.
- If there is an obvious flaw in material or construction we will make sure you are properly sorted out and the problem fixed without any cost to you. If the problem is due to erroneous measurement on the client’s part, we will work with you to solve the problem at the least cost to you as possible. But we are not liable for blatantly erroneous measurements that are provided to us, resulting in an ill-fitting garment. Unfortunately that is the risk of a sight unseen MTO program.
Do you do CMT (customer provided fabric)?
- Yes, but only after you have ordered a suit using our house fabrics and are certain the pattern we have drafted for you fits how you like. We do not do CMT on first suits.
- CMT requires 3.5 meters of cloth for a full suit. If a bold pattern is used, 4 meters (for pattern matching purposes). Cost for CMT, in addition to providing your
cloth mailed to me, is $430
I am local in the Los Angeles area, can you meet up to take my measurement and show me samples?
- Yes I will meet with prospective clients to take their measurements and show fabric and suit samples. Sizing runs up to 42” measured chest only, if your chest measures around larger than 42" you will be outside of my size range and therefore pointless to meet up. Meetups are done in San Gabriel area of SoCal (approx 10-15 min from downtown) at 5:30 pm only Mon, Tues, and Wed. At the moment I do not do any appointments on Thursday, Friday, Saturday or Sunday. All local meetups are done at my discretion of availability, so not all days are guaranteed to be available. And I am a time nazi, there is a 10 min grace period for being late. If you know you will be late please call 5-10 minutes prior to the meeting time. If you are going to be more than 15-20 minutes late I will probably tell you we need to reschedule. If you are 11 minutes late and have not called to inform me of running lateness I will not be there to meet you and I will not come back to meet you that day. The average meetup takes about 15-25 minutes depending on how many questions one has.
Do you ever travel to take measurements?
As of 2011, no I do not “tour”. Perhaps sometime in near future I may try a couple larger cities and see how it goes, but no promises.